In Soviet-era days, the Research and Development Institute of Sonar Technology KNIIGP, Kyiv, was the USSR's leading institution to develop sonar systems for integration onto surface ships and helicopters, as well as stationary sonars and sea-floating buoys for special applications. The institute once supplied sonar systems for destroyers, cruisers and coast guard boats. It was due to the KNIIGP-developed sonar that the Russian ship Admiral Chabanenko fixed the submarine Kursk that drowned in the Barents Sea waters in August 2001. KNIIGP director Yuri Shamarin is speaking in an interview with Defense Express about the projects that unique research-and- pro-duction corporation is working on now:

Shamarin: Founded in 1956 for the development of counter-submarine technologies, nowadays KNIIGP is Ukraine's leading entity to develop and manufacture sonar and acoustic equipment. Currently we are working on a general-purpose sonar called Bosphor. This sonar is fit to operate on ships in a variety of categories -both medium-size and small. Whereas the previous version of the technology fit in 200 to 250 square meters of the ship deck, the latest version, using innovative materials and parts and assemblies, only occupies 10 square meters. We have created and offered such a system to the Turkish Ministry of Defense, having won a contract competition held by the government of Turkey. But because of financial crisis in that country the equipment has never been purchased by the Turkish military. Instead, the Bosphor generated much interest on the part of Pakistan. That country has held a competition for a deal to develop three frigates. The win has been awarded to China, who does not have the potential to manufacture sonar technology on its own. So the Chinese recommended that Pakistan contract with us to acquire sonar systems for the frigates to be built in China. In June or July we are going to receive a Pakistani military team to demonstrate them the sonar as such and its capabilities.

Q: Have you offered the technology to the Ukrainian naval forces?

A: The Bosphor is very much needful to our navy, too. Ukrainian Navy's mine countermeasures ships are equipped with sonar systems manufactured back in the late 1960's. Those technologies are all based on piezoelectric ceramics that is known to lose its properties over time. This dictates the need for the systems to be replaced. We offered updating all of the systems to the Ukrainian Navy, since with the obsolete technology remaining in place, none of the minesweepers is adequate to operate as intended. But they have challenging missions assigned to them. On the Black Sea bed there are WW II-vintage shells and containers with poisonous agents. All that needs to be taken

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out. Torpedoes, both dummy and live, were once sunk in great numbers in the Black Sea waters near Feodosia, eastern Crimea. Those torpedoes need to be taken out, as well. Our sonar has the capacity to fix entities as small as 100 mm in diameter lying in up to 1,000 meters of water. We are about to integrate those [sonar] systems in parts: we will begin with undersea elements, then board elements will follow, until every ship has its sonar system fully replaced.

Q: Who is going to do that job? Your institute or someone else?

A: That equipment is manufactured by our institute. Besides, there are two factories with the potential to put out sonar technology here in Ukraine. Those are the plant Sokol in Nova Kakhovka, Kherson Oblast, and Chervony Luch in the namesake town in Luhansk Oblast. Those two had been set up especially for the manufacture of the products that we design. Today, the two businesses have found themselves in dire straits because of the lack of contracts. But they are going to operate at full capacity manufacturing the equipment, once we finish associated research and development. Demand for sonar technology is big enough, both here in Ukraine and abroad. Apart from Pakistan and Turkey, interest in the technology has been shown by the military of China, Poland and India.

Q: What about Russia?

A: I've recently been to Zelenyy Dol, Russia - home to a design company developing small-size ships as well as mine-hunters and coast guard boats. All of the craft have to be fitted with sonars that we make. An agreement to this effect has been signed with the Russians. So we count on Russia for contracts, considering it a good customer. The Russian Federation now gives high priority to its navy, and I feel we are needful for them. Currently we are conducting negotiations aimed to open our representative office in Moscow. We are willing to work for that country's defense department and the Federal Border Security Service, as well.

Q: Has the Ukrainian Defense Ministry ordered anything from you since independence?

A: In 1991, the Ministry of Defense ordered from us a sonar system called Trap ("deck ladder" in Ukrainian). That sonar is designed for integration onto minehunters. In addition, an order came for the sonar system called Rubezh that is intended for small and medium-pay-load surface ships. Along with that, they ordered modernization of the stationary sonar Angar as well as the update of sonobuoys.

Q: What kind of other defense projects is your institute handling now?

A: Promising enough line of activities that we started back in Soviet-era days is the development of helicopter-carried sonar systems, which is believed the most efficient counter-submarine weapon. Ka-25 and Ka-27 helicopters fitted with sonars take off from a ship deck to a specified spot, say, 100 kilometers away to drop a container to the depth of up to 450 meters. There is a layer in the water that well transmits sound, due to which undersurface targets such as submarines are easy to detect. Afterwards, a plane arrives to drop two buoys to mark the submarine's location. The buoys transmit information through a satellite communication system. By this means the submarine is tracked either to force it to go away or to destroy it. A helicopter- borne sonar system integrated with buoys provides a highly efficient weapon against submerged targets.

In addition, our institute has developed a stationary sonar with an aerial to fix a ship once it passes

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by. The sonar can identify the type of the ship by its characteristic sounds. Also we offered the President of Ukraine via the Navy Commander a system to monitor undersurface situation in the Black Sea waters. Whereas over-the-surface situation is monitored by air defense forces, underwater areas are in effect unattended. This means to say that the Black Sea is open to all. We have made calculations as to how many sonars are needed and where they should be stationed. The capabilities of our equipment are enough to fix even a not very big dolphin. That technology is of interest to Turkey and especially to Pakistan, whose navy is far less powerful than India's. Furthermore, India has a powerful 18-submarine fleet. That project is potentially highly promising, and we are prepared to help create an undersurface situation monitoring system for Pakistan.

Q: Did any of the NATO countries show interest in your designs? Do you have anything to offer them?

A: We maintain a monopoly in the sonar technology development area. Apart from stationary sonars, also we deal in buoys. Previously, the platform for such buoys was the Russian-designed airplane Tupolev 142M. Nowadays, buoys are of no interest to Russia, since Sokol factory in Nova Kakhovka once put them out in abundance. So the military of both Ukraine and Russia are well stocked with buoys.

Instead, that kind of equipment is needful for NATO. Late last year, we were approached by the Germans with a proposal to develop a NATO-standard buoy for platforms available to NATO member countries. Acting via the agency of UkrSpetsExport [state arms dealer], we signed a 15- month 630,000 euros contract with Germany for the development and manufacture of such buoys. The entire program is scheduled for 15 years. Germany was the first NATO country to order the development and delivery of military

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equipment from Ukraine. This would be a good project, as they need 50,000 to 100,000 buoys to be supplied every year, each priced at $5 - 10 thousand. Germans are going to finance production costs, and production itself will be launched on the premises of now mothballed Sokol factory. The buoys are also projected for the delivery to third countries.

Q: China has a long tradition of interest in designs by Ukrainian research and development institutions. Are they working with you among others?

A: We are closely engaged with China. We have signed a $180,000 contract with them for the delivery of a hydroacoustic pipe. With a length of 4 meters, and external and internal diameters of 420 mm and 200 mm, respectively, the pipe would be world's biggest. It is goingto be a sophisticated structure designed for testing various materials for acoustic permeability and sound absorption. Using that kind of a pipe allows it to test ship hull coating that makes the ship deafened. We are about to make that pipe in partnership with Novokramatorsk pipe plant. The possibility is not ruled out that we would be ordered more such pipes, as demand for that kind of pipes - which incorporate equipment to regulate heat and pressure - is great enough.

Q: What do you think of the idea to merger companies into integrated entities or holdings? Do you believe such a merger to be appropriate in case of your institute? Which companies are you ready to merge with?

A: We have already taken action for the merger with Sokol and Chervony Luch. Even a text of an Industrial Policy Minister directive to this effect had been drafted. What's essential today is that we as a head company accumulate enough contracts. Once there is enough orders on our portfolio, we would at once merge into a single corporation with the pilot factory Dnepr, and Sokol and Chervony Luch factories.

Q: In what shape such an association may be?

A: The shape has not to be tough. Now the challenge is for each of the companies within the future corporation to learn how to operate on the payit-your-own-way basis while remaining independent at the same time. The days when we subsidized entire companies are now history. This should not be the case any more. Today each of the companies must boost its potentialities till they are adequate to contracts available. If so, all will search for more contracts. We are going to advise them and help make the necessary arrangements. But after that each of the entities making the corporation will have to assume a certain amount of independence. They will have to be united by a common idea. Beyond buoys, with whose manufacture those factories will be loaded, we are busy crafting a plan on monitoring undersea situation. This will require building a few undersea sonars and updating each of the available ship-borne and helicopter- borne sonars. We have in hand viable projects for the upgrade of helicopter-carried sonar systems.

Q: Russia is known to be taking action to create closed national production cycles for the entire range of weapons and military equipment. What about helicopter-borne sonar systems, given that the helicopters [used as platforms for Ukrainian sonars] are of the Russian make?

A: The research-and-development institute Gidropribor, St. Petersburg, did make attempts to commercialize that kind of technology. So far, those attempts have all failed. The director of the institute expressed willingness to make a kind of a change: The Russians acquire KNIIGP's multi-year sonar technology development expertise in exchange for helping Ukraine launch the manufacture of mines and torpedoes.

Q: Do the designs by your institute find applications in commercial sectors?

A: We manufacture in big enough quantities the appliances that repel rats and mice by emitting acoustic impulses of a specified frequency. Besides, we make scrubbers to disinfect medical utensils using ultrasound. Also our institute puts out ultrasound inhalators. In addition, we are working on a set of diagnostic equipment for gas pipe trouble shooting.

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